driving vs flying

Rob is aware of the costs I quoted and find those costs to be within budget.   I've done the drive to Kissimmee and it isn’t that terrible, but it is a solid

12 hours of driving plus stops.  The flying is

1 hour drive to airport, park, take shuttle (or take a van to the airport)

1.5 hours check in and wait for flight

2.5 hour flight

1.5 hours to retrieve bags and get rental car

1.5 hours to drive Tampa to Kissimmee

7 hours, but broken up nicely with bathroom breaks and distractions

Cost of driving: 920 mi each way, at $0.575/mi that is $1058.  That is a realistic figure for what it really costs you do drive your vehicle that distance between gas, wear items and depreciation.  Cost of fuel alone: assume that your fuel consumption while towing is at best 15mpg, you get

(920 mi * 2 trips /15 mpg) * $2.60 (average cost of gas on East Coast) = $318.93

camp ground cost:

Fort Wilderness (on Disney property): $750.40

Orlando/Kissimmee KOA: $418.08

So the over all cost is 

Flying: 

$57 parking

$508 airfare

$263 rental car

$552 condo

$1353

Driving:

$1058 mileage

$418.08 campsite

$ 1476

Orlando transportation

Recommendations: 

Car rental mid-sized $263 car + $102 in parking =
$365
pros: can go to places the shuttle can't, like Universal, and the grocery store, and non-resort restaurants
cons: parking lots are huge, may want to take a shuttle to get back to you parking space at the end of the day.  You have to navigate for yourself.

Disney shuttle: Free except for tips
$10
pros: you don't have to figure out how to get from one place to another
cons: there may be a wait to get on a shuttle and its route may cover many stops before yours

Research: 

Disney's Magic Express is a motor coach that picks up you and your luggage and takes you to your resort.   

"Disney's Magical Express transportation is a complimentary benefit available to Guests of select Disney Resort hotels. Resort Airline Check-In Service is also complimentary if you are staying at a select Disney Resort hotel and are also traveling on a participating airline."

"I’m taking a shuttle to an off-site hotel. Do I tip the driver?  You’ll see a sign at the front of the bus telling you that driver will accept tips. If you’re just hopping off and on the bus, you shouldn't feel obligated. However, if the driver is helping your store luggage under the bus, go by the dollar per bag rule. "

Q

How much does it cost to park at the parks?
A. The rate depends on your vehicle, but each theme park lot charges the same rate per day.

          Automobile, taxi, limo or motorcycle: $17 USD 

Rental Car: $263 intermediate, Toyota Corolla or similar, with automatic and a/c, total with tax, intermediate from Alamo.

Cost of gas, 200 mi/ 30mpg * $3/gal = $20

Total cost of car: $263 + 20+ (17*6) = $385

flights

It should be noted that the days surrounding the 4th of july holiday are some of the most crowded days at Disney.  More crowded means more time in line and less rides ridden by the end of each day.

I have always found Southwest airlines to be the least expensive for getting to Central Florida.  Southwest flights BWI to Tampa tend to be less expensive than bwi to orlando.  Tamp is a 1 hour 12 minute drive to Magic Kingdom instead of a 25 min drive from Orlando.  Casey and I have flown into Tampa for a Disney vacation often.  Would require a rental car, cannot use Disney Magical Express Airport Shuttle.

southwest round trip flights bwi-orlando. Are more expensive than bwi-tampa.   It is best to book Southwest 6 weeks in advance, but not more than that as prices fluctuate daily.

Airlines other than Southwest charge around $30 for seat assignment, $50/checked bag, $16 per carry on bag, $5 if you don't print your own boarding pass, and they charge for in-flight non-alcoholic drinks.

American Airlines has some decent prices ($783 for 3 people round trip) if you fly tuesday to tuesday or wed/wed:

Delta also has decent prices for tues-tues flights:

overall cost

All Disney all the time, no rental car, with meal plan, flights to Orlando: 
$4182.56 = $10 tips for shuttle + $1098.30 park tickets + $1015 hotel + $1261.26 meal plan + $113 tips at meals + 685 flights

Two Disney resorts, one water park, two Universal Parks, mid-sized rental car, parking, lunch and dinner at restaurants with no meal plan, 2 bedroom condo, flights to Tampa: 
$3822.90 = $260 rental car + $102 in parking + $1703.90 park tickets + $599 condo + $350 restaurant lunch and dinner + $100 groceries for breakfasts and snacks + 644 flights + $64 BWI parking

Adding an extra person: 

$81 change to condo with extra bedroom (http://www.vrbo.com/696468)

$170 Extra flight

$398 Park tickets for extra person

$337 restaurant lunches and dinners, and breakfasts from grocery store for extra person:

$986 Total cost to add an additional person, assuming the person shares the rental car and no additional parking fees at the parks are required.

Research:

Meal plans must be purchased at the same time as the resort package is booked, and must be booked through Disney, ie, can't use any bargain websites for booking the resort, so no discounts.

My first 2 attempts were made assuming Dave's kids were 9 or under, but in fact they are both 10 or over.  This will make the meal plan cost more.  But, since Rob says Dave won't pay tax on the gift of the meal plan, will the cost even out?

1st attempt:

$1108 park tickets (6 day, 1 adult, 2 kids, park hopper)
$1212 lodging (7 night, Art in Animation)
$892 meal plan (7 day, 1 adult, 2 kids, Standard)
$685 flights (Southwest, saturday to saturday)

$3897 Total.

2nd attempt from Disney Go:
https://disneyworld.disney.go.com/cart/
$2693.43 (park ticets 5 day, 1 adult, 2 kids, park hopper)(7 night, Art in Animation) (Disney dining, next step up from quick-sevice plan, 7 day, 1 adult, 2 kids, Standard)
$685 flights (Southwest, saturday to saturday, booked 6 weeks in advance)
3378.43 Total

3rd attempt:
Rental Car: $263 intermediate, Toyota Corolla or similar, with automatic and a/c, total with tax, intermediate from Alamo. parking $17/day, gas $20 for 200 mi at 30mpg and $3/gal.

Total cost of car: $263 + 20+ (17*6) = $385 or Disney shuttle = $28 in tips
Tickets: Total $1303.98---OR-5-day Disney 3 adult with water parks is $1098.30 
Resort: Disney All Star Movie hotel is $1015 -OR-  $931.51 for Caribe Cove 2 brm condo w/kitchen
Food: Disney Dining Plan $ $60.04 per adult per day = $1261.26 + $113 in tips, -OR- $911 Total restaurant food + $100 groceries for breakfasts and snacks = $1061 which includes tips at all table-service restaurants.  
All Disney all the time, no rental car, with meal plan, flights on S/W: 
$4200.56 = $28 + $1098.30 + $1015 + $1261.26 + $113 + 685 

Two Disney resorts, one water park, two Universal Parks, mid-sized rental car, no meal plan, 2 bedroom condo: 
$4074 = $385 + $1303+$690 + $911 + $100

5 days at Disney parks including water parks, mid-sized rental car, no meal plan, 2 bdrm condo not on Disney property: 
$3869.3 = $385 + $1098.30 + $932 + $911 + $100

park tickets

Recommendations
:
1 day Typhoon Lagoon or Blizzard Beach ticket for 4 adults $247.08
2 day Disney no water, no hop (one day in Hollywood, one day in Epcot or Magic Kingdom) $817.92
2 day Universal base ticket for 4 adults (plus free extra 3rd day) $638.92 from undercover tourist.

Total $1703.90

pros:  Universal has some really great thrill rides plus all the Harry Potter stuff
cons: costs $100 more, requires a rental car

--------OR---------------

5-day Disney 3 adult with water parks.  Allows only Magic Kingdom, Epcot, Hollywood Studios, Animal Kingdom, Typhoon Lagoon, and Blizzard Beach, no Universal.

is $1098.30 from undercover tourist.


---OR----

$1378 = $1071.24 four day Disney with water + $306.72 one day Universal 

--OR--

$1335.39 = $869.97 three day Disney no water + $306.72 one day Universal  + $158.7 one day water park

--OR--

$ 1114 = $210 one day Lego, $159 one day water, $310 one day Disney, $435 2 days Universal

pros: costs less, can be accessed from Disney shuttles which are complementary if staying on a Disney owned property.
cons: Magic Kingdom has only one thrill rides and the prime draw is the characters in costume.  Miss out on Harry Potter.

Research: 
"hopping" means visiting more than one park in the same day without paying for a separate ticket.

prices from undercovertourist.com: 
Disney:
$1102.29: 4 day with water parks and park hopper (3 day ticket is same price) vs 
$1071.24 4 day with water parks, with no hopper (3 day ticket is same price) vs
$1098.15 4 day with no water parks and with park hopper (includes 5th day "free")
$600.66 2 day no water, no hop
$869.97 3 day no water, no hop
$ 770.01 = $600.66 for 2 day WDW tickets, no water, no hop + $169.35 for 1 day water park
Universal: 
$434.49 2 day no hop
$533.97 2 day with hop
$306.72 1 day no hop
$420.87 1 day with hop
$434.49 3 day no hop (3rd day is free)
Legoland: 
$210 1 day ticket.  It is a small park and a longer drive, no reason to go twice.
Waterpark (Typhoon Lagoon or Blizzard Beach)
$158.70 1 day no hop

What used to be called Disney's MGM studios is now called Disney's Hollywood Studios.

which parks are best for tween?  
https://www.undercovertourist.com/blog/the-best-orlando-theme-parks-by-age-group/
says Islands of Adventure (Harry Potter), Sea World, Disney's Hollywood studios.  
I disagree about sea World.  They've got 3 good rides and a lot of animal interactions.  
I think the animal interactions are better for younger kids.  

For elementary school kids they say LegoLand.  12 year old daughter will be underwhelmed with
Legoland.  There are no big thrill rides at Legoland.

For teens they say Epcot.  My kids have loved Epcot since they were 6 years old, and I love Epcot.  
Soaring', test track, the rocket launch one, and then exploring the different countries.

Animal Kingdom is not worth it IMHO.  Disney says "its not a zoo."  But it really is a zoo with dozens 
of people standing between you and the animal you want to look at.  

I have never been to Disney's Hollywood studios, but it gets a lot of good press for tweens.

The Harry Potter stuff at Universal's Islands of Adventure is a must-see if your kids like the movies or books, but you have to do it first thing in the morning, and preferably on a day of the week that
typically has lower crowds it is the most popular section of any park in Orlando.

undercover tourist crowd calendar: https://www.undercovertourist.com/orlando/crowd-calendar/june-2015/#calendar  I can tell you that we have been to Magic Kingdom on a number of Mondays (which undercover tourist rates as "red" for crowds) and we have been there on a number of Tuesdays (rated green for crowds) and the difference in riding the race cars was an hour wait on the Mondays and an 10 minute wait on Tuesdays.

To avoid the crowds I would recommend:

Tuesday, arrive, unpack, buy groceries for breakfasts and evening snacks.
Wednesday 23, Disney's Hollywood Studios
Thursday 24, Epcot or Magic Kingdom
Friday  25 Typhoon Lagoon or Blizzard Beach
Saturday 26th, Universal's Islands of Adventure
Sunday 27th Universal Studio
Monday, 28th use free Universal Studio tickets or do no parks, go to Disney Boardwalk, Downtown Disney, (which are full of shopping, eating, and video game places) etc. pack
Tuesday, fly home

To check which parks have traditionally been busiest on which days, follow this link: https://www.undercovertourist.com/orlando/crowd-calendar/june-2015/#calendar

Water parks rankings by tripadvisor.com (lower number is better): Blizzard Beach (#12) , Aquatica (#24), CoCo Key, Wet-n-Wild (ranked 35), Typhoon Lagoon (#10) ,

Three day water parks and more for 3 adults (10 and over) $1071.74 from undercover tourist (no hopping).  It is an extra $60/ticket for water parks so you pay $94 + $60 to get into a water park that would cost you only $53/ticket to buy individually.  I don't get it.

Water parks rankings by tripadvisor.com (lower number is better): Blizzard Beach (#12) , Aquatica (#24), CoCo Key, Wet-n-Wild (ranked 35), Typhoon Lagoon (#10) ,

ranking of non-water parks Epcot #21, Hollywood Studios #11, Universal's Islands of Adventure #3, Magic Kingdom #7, Universal Studios is #18.

Best rides in Magic Kingdom for tweens: Monster's Inc Laugh Floor, Space Mountain, Thunder Mountain, Splash Mountain (really old log flume ride), Haunted Mansion, Mickey's Philharmagic, Buzz Lightyear's Space Ranger Spin, Tom Sawyer's Island,

Best Rides in Epcot for tweens: Test Track, Soarin', Mission Space,

http://www.mousesavers.com/sources-for-discounts-on-walt-disney-world-tickets/#undercover

Mousesavers advises calculating the cost of buying tickets separately vs buying tickets in a package with the lodging.

Orbitz.com when purchasing with hotel: 5 day park hopper 1 adult 2 kids $1,120.38
6 day park hopper 1 adult 2 kids $1152

Ideas: only one day in Universal, no water park: 
4 or 5 days in Disney (same price) $929.97

dining plan research

Recommendations:

$1273.44 for the Disney Dining plan 
Pros: You don't have to think about whether what you are ordering will cost too much
Cons: You are locked into resort style food for all 7 days for all 3 of you, alcoholic beverages aren't included, tips aren't included

-OR- 

$911 Total restaurant food (including tips, sodas, and a dessert split by the 3 of you)
$100 groceries for breakfasts and snacks


$1011 which includes tips at all table-service restaurants.  

Pros: You can eat wherever you want
Cons: You may worry about going over budget because park food prices are shocking but have been taken into account.


Research:

Restaurants I recommend: 

Saturday: Take out dinner $40
Islands of Adventure: Mythos $67 lunch The Three Broomsticks for dinner $55
Epcot:  Sunshine Season for lunch $65, Biergarten for dinner $120
Typhoon Lagoon: Leaning Palms for lunch $50, $10 frozen treats, get out of here before dinner.  Sweet Tomatoes $42
Hollywood Studios:  50's Prime Time Cafe for lunch $85, leave park and eat at Benihanna for dinner $90
Universal Studios: The restaurants in this place get the worst reviews of any theme park restaurants.  Try Finnegan's Bar and Grill for lunch $67, and leave the park for dinner at Margaritaville for dinner $90.
Downtown Disney: (get free chocolate at Ghirrardelli) lunch at Cross Roads at House of Blues $90.  Pizza delivery for dinner $40.
____________________________________


To save money can go to table service lunches (Mythos, Biergarten, etc. and go to quick service places for dinner (Sunshine Season, The Three Broomsticks, etc).  This would save $45.

If we assume $15/lunch, $5/snack, and $35/dinner (including tip) we get $55/person/day or $990/6 days.  If you assume $20 dinner at quick service restaurants instead of  $35 at table service, it would be $720, or a savings of $270.

One website says to assume $12/lunch and $17/dinner.  This seems impossible since the drinks are $3/each, and at dinners you'll have to tip.  $17 is only going to get you fast food, not table service food.

Can I get the Disney Dining Plan if I buy my park tickets from an authorized reseller or other vendor?

No. You have to buy all three components of the package: room, Dining Plan, and park tickets.

http://www.disneyfoodblog.com/2013/02/04/tip-from-the-dfb-guide-6-important-disney-dining-plan-pros-and-cons/

Breakfast is not included at the resorts, so if the quick-service or standard plan is purchased, Dave will have to buy breakfast for himself and the kids (or eat a cold breakfast using an in-room fridge).

from: http://touringplans.com/walt-disney-world/disney-dining-plan:

Disney Dining Plan Components and Costs (per Person per Hotel Night)

PLAN	REFILLABLE MUG	SNACKS	COUNTER SERVICE MEALS	FULL SERVICE MEALS	APPETIZERS (WITH FULL SERVICE MEALS)		2014 COST (INC TAX)
Quick-Service	1	1	2	0	0		Adult: $41.99 Child: $16.03
Standard	1	1	1	1	0		Adult: $60.64 Child: $19.23
Deluxe	1	2	3 of either type		1		Adult: $109.53 Child: $29.86

Children under 3 eat free from an adult’s plate.  Children 3-9 paying the child's price, must eat from the children's menu.  Ages 10 and over must purchase the adult plan.

Assuming 1 adult, 2 children, a week of food would be $892.

The Details

A counter-service meal includes:

• A main course (sandwich, dinner salad, pizza, or the like) or a complete combo meal (such as a burger and fries); breakfast is typically a combination platter including eggs, bacon or sausage, potatoes, and a biscuit
• Dessert (except breakfast, where Disney does not offer dessert)
• A nonalcoholic drink

A full-service sit-down meal includes:

• A main course or entree
• Dessert (except breakfast, where Disney does not offer dessert)
• A nonalcoholic drink

If you're dining at a buffet, the full-service meal includes the full buffet and a nonalcoholic drink. Tax is included in all parts of the dining plan's prices, but a gratuity is not. If you opt for the dining plan, assume you'll pay another 15 to 20% of the cost of your sit-down meals and buffets in tips.

Snacks include items normally sold from carts or small stands throughout the parks and resorts: ice cream, popcorn, soft drinks, fruit, chips, apple juice, and the like.

The refillable mug can only be used at the food courts and restaurants of your Disney hotel; you cannot refill mugs at the theme parks or water parks.

For instance, if you're staying for three nights and four days, each member of your party will be credited with three counter-service meals, three full-service meals, and three snacks. All those meals will be put into a "meal account" for each person in your hotel room. Meals in that account can be used on any combination of days, so you're not required to eat every meal every day. Thus, you can skip a full-service meal one day and have two on another day. Your meal plan expires at midnight on the day you check out of the Disney resort.

Disney's top-of-the-line restaurants (dubbed "Disney Signature" restaurants in the plan), along with Cinderella's Royal Table, all the dinner shows, regular room service, and in-room pizza delivery, count as two full-service meals. If you dine at one of these locations, two full-service meals will be deducted from your account for each person dining.

In addition to the preceding, the dining plans come with several other important rules:

• Everyone staying in the same resort room must participate in the plan.
• The same plan must be purchased for every night of your stay. You cannot, for example, pay for the meal plan on only 3 nights of a 5-night stay, nor can you get the standard plan for 2 nights and the quick-service plan for 3.
• Children ages 3-9 must order from the kids' menu, if one is available. This rule is occasionally not enforced at Disney's counter-service restaurants, enabling older children to order from the regular (adult) menu.
• Alcoholic beverages and some bottled nonalcoholic drinks are not included in the plan.
• A full-service meal can be breakfast, lunch, or dinner.
• Gratuity is not included for full-service meals.
• Unused meals are nonrefundable.
• The dining plan is occasionally unavailable when using certain room-only discounts.

http://www.disneyfoodblog.com/disney-dining-plan-faq/

How do I buy the Dining Plan?

The Disney Dining Plan must be purchased as part of a Magic Your Way package which includes your Disney hotel stay, theme park tickets, and the Dining Plan. There are some modifications to this requirement for Disney Vacation Club members and Walt Disney World annual pass holders. Unless you are a DVC member or AP holder, you can ONLY get the Disney Dining Plan if you also purchase a hotel stay and park tickets as a package. You can buy a Magic Your Way package on the Walt Disney World website, over the phone at 407-WDW-MAGIC, or through an authorized travel agent or vacation planner.

Can I get the Disney Dining Plan if I buy my park tickets from an authorized reseller or other vendor?

No. You have to buy all three components of the package: room, Dining Plan, and park tickets.

I’ve heard that breakfast can be a snack.

There are many items that qualify as snacks that are typically thought of a breakfast foods. These include some single-serving muffins, bagels, and other pastries. If you’re happy eating that as your first meal of the day, then you’re good using your snack credit for breakfast. However, if you want a drink to go with your muffin, you’ll have to pay for that separately.

Can I use my Dining Plan credits at character meals?

Yes. With the exception of Cinderella’s Royal Table, all character meals at the Disney parks and resorts are one table-service credit meals. CRT is a two-credit table service meal.

Can I use my table service credits for breakfast or do I have to use them for dinner?

The dining plan is very flexible. Once you have your allotment of credits, you can use them in any order your wish. While it doesn’t make the most financial sense to do so, you are welcome to use your table service or quick service credits for breakfast, lunch, or dinner.

Are there places where there is no kids’ menu so I don’t have worry about who orders what?

Yes. These are primarily quick service venues, including: Toluca Turkey Legs, Casey’s, Sommerfest, Yorkshire County Fish Shop, Main Street Bakery, Golden Oak Outpost, and others.

I don’t eat dessert. Can I get an appetizer instead?

No. In the past, cast members were fairly lenient with this, but more recently Disney has become quite strict. You can certainly ask; your server may be inclined to bend the rules for you. But in general, you should not expect to exchange desserts for appetizers on the Dining Plan.

Saturday, arrive, unpack, buy groceries for breakfasts and evening snacks.
Sunday, Islands of Adventure
Monday, Typhoon Lagoon
Tues or Wed Disney's Hollywood Studios
Tues or Wed, Universal Studios, have dinner at Universal City Walk
Thurs Epcot
Friday, no parks, go to Disney Boardwalk, Downtown Disney, Universal's City walk, etc. pack
Saturday, fly home

Mythos menu: https://www.universalorlando.com/Images/Mythos%20Menu%205-27-2013_tcm13-28313.pdf

comparing resorts

My recommendations:

Disney All Star Movie hotel $1015
Pros - on Disney property, comes with complementary shuttle to all other Disney parks and resorts.  Also, being "on property" is the only way to buy the meal plan.
Cons - 3 people in one room, is a lowest priced Disney property short of sleeping in a tent.  With no car, you are limited to Disney parks and can't go to Universal, or to the grocery store, etc.  Sometimes long waits for shuttles.

-OR-
Windsor Hills condo from Home Away http://www.homeaway.com/vacation-rental/p64214vb#reviewsPage3
 $665 with full kitchen for the week including tax and cleaning charges.
$551.85 Villa Del Sol condo from Vacation Rental By Owner    http://www.vrbo.com/390678ha

$551.85 for 6/23 - 6/30 (coinciding with the lowest price airfare)
Pros - 2 bedrooms, kitchen, living area, got good reviews
Cons - have to have a car, can't buy the Disney dining plan

Three bedroom place Terra Verdes resort, 3 brm $598.95: http://www.vrbo.com/696468

The research: 

http://www.wdwinfo.com/wdwinfo/disney-rates-2014.htm#carib

on property resorts are divided between Value, Moderate, and Deluxe with the prices for mid-May being approx $123-150/night for Value, $211-272/night for Moderate, and $389-550 for Deluxe (without any bargain hunting).

Ken and Holly stayed at Art in Animation, which is a value resort.  It got an average of 4.5 out of 5 stars on http://www.tripadvisor.com/Hotel_Review-g34352-d2336339-Reviews-Disney_s_Art_of_Animation_Resort-Kissimmee_Florida.html

The rooms are super cute for kids who like Little Mermaid, Cars, etc., but kids aged 10 and 12 may not be interested in the decor.

Staying at a Disney property entitles the guest to use Disney transportation which is a bus system that will take guests to all other Disney properties (there is no additional charge for riding the buses except the shuttle from the airport to the hotel and back.

Art of animation is $1212 for the week ($158/nt + tax from all 5 big on-line vendors) Got 4.5 stars avg from 3143 reviews is ranked Ranked #6 of 158 Hotels in Kissimmee
Disney All Star Movie hotel is $1015 for the week ($128/nt + tax) 4 *'s of 2939 reviews, ranked #134 of 326 hotels in Orlando.  Pop Century is $1076.90 ($137/night + tax) got 4 *'s in 6216 reviews is ranked #114 of 326 hotels in Orlando.  Professional reviews gave all of these resorts 2.5 *'s.

Best Westerm Lake Buena Vista Resort Hotel uses the shuttle system, $89/night, $701/wk.

Polynesian $1,144/week for a 1 bedroom plus $70.  $1247.40 for a 2 bedroom (1 queen, and 1 room with 2 twins). ranked #2 of 158 hotels in Kissimmee 4.5 *'s from 450 user reviews.  

Barefoot Suites $750/week for a 1 bedroom, but not as well reviewed.  About 3% of people complained about the noise from Disney's Old Town.

Caribe Cove 2 brm condo $931.51 with full kitchen for the week including tax and cleaning charges. Most of the bad reviews were people who were surprised by the $100 cleaning fee. Hotels.com discloses this fee.  Ranked #9 of 158 Hotels in Kissimmee 4*'s 714 user reviews on tripadvisor.  Professional reviews gave it 3.5 *'s.

Buena Vista Suites, 2 queen beds in one room and a pull-out couch in the other, $841.68
on tripadvisor, 4 *'s 844 reviews, #127 of 326 hotels in Orlando.  Profe